Silly Cone Filters

nikki
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Post by nikki » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:36 pm

Hey Ice Man,

You have some serious conditioning in your setup - nice! :shock: 8)
Do you think you have reached the threshold of filtering for your room?

I'm game if Gilbert ever wants to send me a truck load of stuff to try :wink:

To be honest, I have been trying to reduce the clutter at the front of my room so I'm not sure I would want to add more complexity behind the amps. Some day, I wouldn't mind comparing the 6020 to my BPT 3.5 Sig+ on the source.

Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:58 pm

Nikki,

I have heard a nice and significant improvement every time I added the additional filtering. At this point, I've exhausted all my outlets on my BC 6000 and MR 1200 with audio equipment and various silly cone filters. I will upgrade to the BC 6020 one day, but at this time, my resources would best be be used upgrading other areas of my system. So to answer your question: my gut feeling is that I don't think I've found my limit yet.

I have compared plugging Silly Cone Filters (SCF) into the BC 6000 and MR 1200 versus nearby wall outlets, and it's no comparison: plug them directly into the BC units. Gilbert demonstrated in a video that the closer the SCF are to the source, the more effective they are. With that being said, I have an SCF plugged into ever corresponding outlet of my audio equipment.

I love my BC 6000 and it is the foundation of my ac filtering. I had my amp plugged into my MR1200 and while it took out a lot of "noise", it also took out some of the liveliness. Gilbert suggested the BC6000 and that was it. Backgrounds became BLACK, speed was kicked up several layers and everything just seemed more alive, more like the performers were playing in front of me. I have my source and preamp connected to my MR1200. I tried various combinations with the preamp and source connected to the BC 6000, but it sounds smoother connected to the MR1200; midrange gives me goose bumps. It is, however, like all things, a matter of personal taste.

One thing that became clear to me if you are "piggy backing" filtering equipment is to have the best cable/filter connecting them. When I went from a standard AC cord connecting my BC 6000 to MR 1200 to a BC68MK2 (3X SCF), it was huge. Now I have a fairly short BC 62 with a 12X SCF attached connecting the two units.

I'm pretty confident that if you try out a BC 6020, attach your amps directly into them, along with your 18X SCF, you won't be returning the unit to Gilbert :-) haha...Actually, if he hasn't built your 18Xs yet, see if you can borrow a BC 6020. When you fall in love with it, then talk about making it a custom product by putting in an addition 2 or 3 equivalent 18Xs inside the unit, freeing your outlets for audio use and putting that bad boy on some serious steriods. As you well know, if you talk with Gilbert about custom products, I'm sure he can make you something with his latest, cutting edge ideas and parts. Like he says, "The sky is the limit."

12 years ago, knowing absolutely nothing about AC filtering, Gilbert gave me two (1X) filters to play with. And so the addiction began...... :-)

Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:43 pm

Gilbert,

What is the difference between spending around $1000 on silly cone filtering versus spending the $1000 on the +20 module? For those who don't know, the +20 module is a module which upgrades the BC 6000 to a BC 6020.

Thanks!

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Gilbert Y
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Post by Gilbert Y » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:49 pm

Ice Man

The result is the same whether using a +20 module or build in. The only different is for those who already has a BC6000, they can just get a +20 module and plug into the back of the BC6000 and turn it into a BC6020.

If the user prefer to have it upgrade internally, they can send the BC6000 back to us and we can do it internally.

There are some who already has a BC6020 and add the +20 onto it and found further improvement in sound quality. It's like a BC6020+20= BC6040.

Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man » Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:33 am

Follow up questions:

In one of the earlier threads, you mentioned that it isn't just the quantity of filtering one has, but also the type of filtering that makes a difference.

18X Silly Cone Filter in ABS price is $820. The +20 Module is $1000. Other than the obvious differences between the two: the 18X requiring the use of an outlet and the +20 is only a BC 6000 series upgrade, 1) how much difference is there between the two filters in terms of filtering ability? 2) Are the two filters using similar technology or are they different? 3) If I have a BC 6000 and I'm thinking of upgrading my filtering, is it strictly better to get the +20 module or are there cases where an 18X silly cone filter would work better?

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions.

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Gilbert Y
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Post by Gilbert Y » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:18 am

Ice Man

Beside the +20 Module is designed for BC6000 upgrade and the capacitance is more than the 18X filter, it is also design to react (match) with the internal BC6000 filters to extent the coverage of a wider range of frequency spectrum. Using a 18X filter with a BC6000 will add up almost as much as a +20 module in term of capacitance but it doesn't cover as wide a range of frequency spectrum as with the 20 module. Because what 18X filter covers has already been done by the BC6000.

If the system already has a BC6000 and want to add a 18X, 12X or 6X Sillycone filter(s), it is better to is somewhere else in the room on the same or different circuits. This way, those Sillycone filters will act like an outpost defend of airborne EMI from other circuits in the same room. All the wires inside the wall are unshield which will emit EMI. Adding a Sillycone filter every 6ft to 10ft will help.

In the case of power amps sitting in the middle between two speakers, it is a typical app to have Sillycone Filter(s) to use with those power amp(s) and they act like an outpost filters for the whole room.

Did I answer your questions?

nikki
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Post by nikki » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:46 am

Ice Man - Good question, I was wondering the same thing myself.

Gil But -
I suppose the next question would be if it is possible to build a Silly Cone filter with the same filter spec as the 6020? So in other words, a 6020 with no outlets. That would be a good application for power amps directly connected to the wall and people who currently run their conditioners in tandem like Ice Man with his 1200/6000 combo.

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Gilbert Y
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Post by Gilbert Y » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:32 am

Nikki

What you are looking for is a +20 module with a regular ac plug. However, if you are using the +20 module by itself it is not going to be as effective as using a 18X filter by itself.

G

Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:02 am

Yes, Gilbert. Thank you for the thorough response.

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Post by Ice Man » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:57 pm

Gilbert,

I'm sorry, I'm still a bit confused about the placement of silly cone filters.

I thought you had demonstrated in the YouTube video that the closer they were to source, the more effective it will be. I've had excellent results when all my silly cone filters were plugged into BC 6000 and MR 1200. I did play around with having one or two 6X filters plugged into outlets, on the same circuit, a few feet away from BC 6000, but felt it sounded better plugged directly into BC6000 and MR1200. Based on what you posted, I will play around with having the pair of 12X's plugged into the outlets, same circuit, a few feet away instead of directly into BC 6000.

If the silly cone filters cover the same spectrum as the BC 6000, will the filtering be enhanced by extra filtering on the same spectrum or is it redundant? To my ears, there is a clear improvement when the silly cone filters are plugged in.

Thanks again.

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Gilbert Y
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Post by Gilbert Y » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:41 pm

Ice Man

Every system is different. What I posted is just a rule of thumb. It is like playing defense on a battlefield. In the old days, the defenders (filters) stayed in a castle and fought off the invaders (noise). This is like having BC6000 and plugging everything into it, including the filters. The invaders can do anything in the other parts of the room, and there isn't anything the defenders can do about it. If you only have a BC6000 or a BC6020, that's what you will do: stay in the castle and defend until the very end. However, if you have other foot solders (sillycone filters), you can send them out into the battlefield to kill as many invaders before they get into the castle; sillycone filters kill as much noise as possible before they even get close to the BC6000 or the audio equipment.

Make sense? This is just a rule of thumb. However, if some other placement of filters works better, that can very well be. Again, every system and room is unique.

Ice Man
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Post by Ice Man » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:11 pm

Makes perfect sense. That is an excellent analogy-- very creative!! I'm happy because that means the placement of my filters isn't optimized, as damn good as it currently sounds.

Thank you again for your time and thoughts!

splityew
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Post by splityew » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:15 am

Gilbert
I am using a PLC in a wall socket with two outlets one of which is free and I also have a free outlet on the PLC when everything is plugged in.
Does this mean that if I want to use a sillycone as well, all things being equal in theory the best place to plug it would be the empty outlet in the wall socket rather than the free outlet in the PLC?
Last edited by splityew on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BlueKnight
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Post by BlueKnight » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:35 am

Gilbert Y wrote: Every system is different. What I posted is just a rule of thumb. It is like playing defense on a battlefield.
So, how would you categorize my 6000BLS? Defense or offence?
Image

nikki
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Post by nikki » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:49 pm

Gilbert Y wrote:Nikki

What you are looking for is a +20 module with a regular ac plug. However, if you are using the +20 module by itself it is not going to be as effective as using a 18X filter by itself.

G
Gil But,
Are you saying that it is not possible to build a fully spec'd 6020 into a pipe? And it would be used outside of the castle :)

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