Digital amps

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:32 am

Gilbert, what are your thoughts on digital amps?

Is there one in BC's future?



-Dafo-

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:57 pm

Sorry, ment to post this in "off-topic"

Dafo

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Gilbert Y
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Post by Gilbert Y » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:58 pm

Dafo

Digital amp, eh? My thought is I don't want to think about it. At this moment, I still want to make something that make music. :D

Beside, most of the so call digital amp on the market right now are not true digital. They don't amplify the signal in digital domain. They only switch the output stage(s), to conserve power, thus less heat, smaller size, higher power. It's more or less like those Carver Magnetic amps back in the 80's in a newer generation.

The only company I know of that actually attempted to do a true digital amp but not very sucessful was Wadia. Remember their Power DAC. That was a true digital amp. It was so expensive and at that time, they have too much on their plate and that was one of the reason the project has been dropped.

So for now, I still make analog amps because I believe it is the only way to make good music. Beside, I cannot see how can I put a tube in those so call digital amp yet. Anyone have any idea? <_< :lol:


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Post by admin » Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:55 am

Dafo:
No need to apologize. You did post it to "off topic." I slipped it into "audio related stuff" because basically it is audio related stuff. If you want to post to "off topic" you will have to come up with something weirder than digital amps. :)

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:51 am

Gilbert,

You can stick a tube in a "digital" amp. I picked up a Carver ProZR1600 (no relation to the other Carver Audio) digital switching amp for cheap and had a friend modify the daylights out of it. Part of the modification included building a tube (6922/6DJ8) input stage. Essentially, it is now a hybrid amp with the signal going from the tube input to a Tripath digital switching chip.

Regards,

Chris


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Post by PhilNYC » Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:23 am

Gilbert Y wrote: So for now, I still make analog amps because I believe it is the only way to make good music. Beside, I cannot see how can I put a tube in those so call digital amp yet. Anyone have any idea? <_< :lol:
How about a digital power supply?
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www.sonicspirits.com

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Post by Gilbert Y » Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:10 am

Cen and Phil

First of all, the so call digital amp you both are talking about is NOT digital amp. They are just switching amp. The word digital is so mis represented it is sick to the point that I don't want to even discuss about it.


Cen

If you have to modify the day light out of a so call switching amp before you can listen to it. Then why don't you spend money on a good "analog" amp. There is no point to have a switching amp, isn't there? Beside, you are not feeding "1" and "0" into the tube, are you? :D


Phil

What you are saying I believe is switching power supply not digital power supply. Switching power supply is the type they use in computer. Make lots of noise and claim they don't dump it into the power line. Another marketing scam. They are just like the one in those old Carver amp. Ok, now Linn, Rowland and some other company are using them too. Do they sound any good to you? Really, does anyone really need 500watt per channel with 5.1 channel in a 15' x 20' room?

This so call digital stuff is like CD when it was introduced in 1980. Vinyl was doing a great job back then and has so much potential for improvement. The industry introduce CD as music media and went backward 10 steps. Took another 20 years before CD get to this this point and still don't sound as good as a LP set up. Sure, optical disc like CD has their merit, they can store a lot of thing. They can also store only ok quality of music, but still not as good as a good LP set up.

Switching amp and power supply has their merit too. They save space, less heat, take less power, cost less if they are made China in quanity of 5000 and more. But they don't provide quality. They made music sound flat just like CD when it first start. It may take another 20 years before any switching amp sound as close to as some good analog amp but that 20 years is too long for me to wait.

Let face it, does anyone really need 500watt per channel with 5.1 set up in their house? Are those switching amp actually save that much power. Does anyone know how much power they speaker actually draw at any given point? Then remember, analog will never goes away from us. We speaker everyday, that's analog. We heard everyday, that's analog too. If we transmit and receive analog signal, why do we have to fool with the signal, convert to some semi-digital signal and filter that back into analog. I still don't see the point. Would someone try to convince me? <_<

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Post by Guest » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:22 pm

I think what will lead digital amps forward is the semiconductor industry. Without a good performing "chip" it won't sound its best, no matter what you do to the output section.

For computers "Intel Inside" sells more than who made it.
(Dell just provides the best support that results in industry leadership.) Every DVD player and HT decoder out there brags about the resolution of the chips inside, not what they did to it. There is some truth in that..


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Post by Sugarbrie » Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:50 pm

:o Forgot to log-in.. Semiconductor comments above are mine..

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Post by Gilbert Y » Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:52 pm

Very ture Sugarbrie. However, there is still very much to improve and do to analog side of the game. I hope people don't just looking for something new and forget about the quality of the product.

BTW If Dell provide the best support of the industry, the industry is really sad. I have three friends who swear up and down about how bad Dell support is.

Oh, BTW........ I forget to mention using digital amp MAY require using digital ready speaker to go with it. Haa, haa........ :D :lol: :rolleyes: :) B) :P :o ;) :huh: :unsure: :blink:

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:41 pm

If you have to modify the day light out of a so call switching amp before you can listen to it. Then why don't you spend money on a good "analog" amp. There is no point to have a switching amp, isn't there? Beside, you are not feeding "1" and "0" into the tube, are you?
Gilbert,

The amp was cheap (well, for this hobby anyway) and the modifications cost about the same as the amp. In the end, I have a small, powerful, emminently enjoyable amp for not too much money.

I understand that calling these amps digital is a misnomer. What I have in effect is a tube/SS hybrid amp -- sound familiar? :lol:

I have to say, in all honestly, that switching amps have their sonic strengths over conventional analog SS (as well as their weaknesses, of course) . It may be awhile before designers/manufacturers really start to nail them, but I think it is coming. (That said, I doubt traditional SS or tubes will go away anytime soon.) The smaller size and cooler operating temps possible are also a plus.

Regards,

Chris

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Post by Gilbert Y » Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:44 pm

Cens

The term "coming" could mean a long time. I remember 25 years ago everyone was flowning on using op-amp. Op-amp now aday is not like back then. So switching amp may be the way of the future but I just don't think that will be too near future.

I remember when CD came out, it has it advantage. Pefect sound forever, remember that? ;) Anyway, they sounded clean, no pops, ticks, or any other noise. It sounded real great to regular folks. Then we crazy audiophile said LP still sound better than those li'l silver disc. I think those crazy audiophile is still correct, but the gap between CD and LP is getting closer. Very close indeed if you are willing to pay a lot of money for a good digital front end. I am talking about &#036;30,000 and over.

Therefore, I am not thinking about switching amp nor so call digital amp right now. That doesn't mean I will never do one. When thing are getting better, than I will make one but not until then. Hey, by then may be I am deaf so I don't care what I make anymore. :D :lol: :P B) :rolleyes: :) :blink:

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Post by Sugarbrie » Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:14 pm

I could possibly see small digital amps appearing first in hand-held devices and the like. They could then make them even smaller and lighter.

Gilbert, I don't know why anyone would call any PC computer company's support line. It is an entry level position. Anyone who knows anything worthwhile about computers is not going to want to work on a help line for &#036;15 an hour.

All PC computers regardless of brand have the same parts inside.


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Post by Gilbert Y » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:52 pm

Sugarbrie

Once again, I agree with you regarding "All PC computers regardless of brand have the same parts inside." They all have crap that obselete by the time you order them. :lol:

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Post by Will » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:51 am

I have a Dell system. My 17" monitor broke after 2 years and 11 months. The warranty was for 3 years. Called Dell and they sent me a NEW 19" monitor to replace the 17".

My co-worker's mom knows nothing about computers. She bought a Dell and had some technical problems that Dell could not resolve over the phone. She finally got fed up and asked for her money back. Dell gave her a full refund.

I'll be buying Dell again!

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