NSL review by TAB

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Gilbert Y
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NSL review by TAB

Post by Gilbert Y » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:27 pm


Jeddy
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Post by Jeddy » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:26 am

WOW!
What a review Gil!

Of the two I've now read this guy gets pretty philosophical.
Your products do present the listener a challenge in
describing just what one is hearing.
They do have an elusive quality.

That's a review to frame.
He really tried hard to put words to what he heard.

And I can't say as I've known any other "iconoclasts!"

Congratulations on the success of the NSL!!!

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Post by BlueKnight » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:31 am

Sweeeeeet...! Image
Image

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wstagner
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Post by wstagner » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:30 pm

Outstanding! :D
TLP Audio<br>http://www.classicpumps.com/tlpmain.htm<br>Illinois Authorized Blue Circle Dealer

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Post by stew » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:58 am

Congrats!

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Post by Jeddy » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:59 am

hey Gilbert
There is a discussion going on over at canuckaudiomart in the forums
about the NSL amp.
Some wonder at why you feel it necessary to hand solder
all those op-amps and not have them manufactured onto the boards?

This would eliminate the potential of a bad solder and obviously
save some time and effort and perhaps keep the costs down for the
customer. (less manual labour)

Wouldn't the quality be the same anyway?
Wouldn't you save your eyesight?
Wouldn't it just be more efficient?

It would give you more time to drink beer...

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Gilbert Y
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Post by Gilbert Y » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:58 am

All of those IC are soldered onto PC boards. Someone still have to put them together. We can't have everything done by a machine.

Have them manufactured onto the boards. Is that mean have someone else hand solder them onto boards? For small number manufacturing, it costs just as much or more to set up to use machine solder the parts onto boards then hand solder. Unless we are selling 100 NSLs a year. Otherwise, it is not worth it.

Having someone else solder the boards doesn't save manual labor. Someone has to charge the same manual labor hour then we pay in house. Unless they mean having someone overseas to solder the boards. That will mean we lose control of the quality. Such a myth people think having someone else to do it will eliminate all those potential problems. Having someone else to do the boards sometime will have more unknown.

I am working on ways to save some manual labor but we have to prove it doesn't decrease quality. Even then it doesn't mean the NSL is going to be a lot cheaper because we are still not selling 100 of this thing a year.

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Post by nikki » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:52 am

Nice review! Always enjoy reading Mickelson's writing.

Gil But doesn't drink beer so he has a lot of sober time to solder. Then again, not sure what inhaling 2 weeks of fumes does to the brain. :)

I looked at that Canuck thread and I think it is only one guy who is questioning all the manual labour involved. Can't please everyone.

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Gilbert Y
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Post by Gilbert Y » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:16 am

nikki wrote:Can't please everyone.
Not even try to please everyone. I would like to quote Mr. Bill Cosby again: "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." It is still hanging beside my work bench. Look at it everyday. One of the thing in my life to help me make peace to myself. :wink:

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Post by Erik » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:00 pm

Hi Gilbert.

I'm the guy that thinks you should seriously investigate having what appear to be multiple identical boards machine made. There are companies in Canada that can manufacture each board for you and use machines to stuff them. I've found the end product to be inexpensive and reliable.

We've found that the stuffing is cheaper than hiring a dedicated person to do the work. I'd hazard a guess and say that if your amp contains a dozen identical boards, this would save a significant amount of time, money, and potentially reduce the price of the finished product.

Cheers!

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Gilbert Y
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Post by Gilbert Y » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:12 pm

Hi Erik

I am aware of your posts on CAM and I am rather taken back by the hard tone of your comments. Rather to see and understand the complete picture I would not jump to conclusion in first sight. I have spent over 6 years from concept to production on the NSL. If you went through the steps we have been, you would totally agree why we do what we do and be proud of it.

There are many issues involve to make the boards which most outsider would not even think about. Based your posts on CAM, you don't have any idea what we have put in there. It seem identical but are they really identical? What solder are we using? Try to find a board house who is willing to change their solder bath to the solder we want and make 100 boards. Good luck. By the time they set up a new bath and the amount of solder we need to pay to fill the bath, it is enough to make another two NSLs by hand with spare change. There are many other issues involve which I am not going to let our secret out.

We are all different. Someone like being told the heatsink material was choosen for sonic reason and have the "P" name on it which probably count for 75% of the cost. Does it worth it? On the other hand, there are others who would wait 7 years for a hand built Morgan which they eye ball and punch the hood grill by hand. Why a custom Kiton suit cost as much as $50K and take 50 hours to make? Why not just go to JC Penney or Sears to buy a $99 suit or better yet, 2 for $99 from some other places where they made their suits by machine and slave labor, they have perfect tolerance. BTW Look at a custom Kiton suit, their stitching are all out of weck for people who doesn't appreciate their quality.

I would rather keep doing what I like and ignore what I don't. I keep my mouth shut and open my ears, eyes and nose (more important, my brain) on what I don't understand. Because I understand we all built different and we like different thing. I don't go pick on others for what and why they do because I know they have their reasons.

I will stay way from people who doesn't like me but at the same time I know I am doing something right because someone doesn't like me. I am making a different and rocking the boat. I am a trouble maker and I like it that way. The world is small but big enough for me to hide when I need it.

:wink: :)

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Post by Erik » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:37 pm

No need to hide. I appreciate the explanation.

Thank you very much for the clarification.

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Gilbert's Clarification

Post by bobneill » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:37 am

I will put THAT on MY wall.

Bob

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bjh
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Post by bjh » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:39 am

No wonder no peoples work cheap fo you, you want first they take " solder bath" ... who take solder bath, is too hot, all peoples no dat ... solder bath ...you crazy?

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Gilbert Y
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Post by Gilbert Y » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:51 pm

bjh wrote:No wonder no peoples work cheap fo you, you want first they take " solder bath" ... who take solder bath, is too hot, all peoples no dat ... solder bath ...you crazy?
You call me crazy, thank you. I will take that as a compliment. 8) :)

In order to understand what kind of torture the electronics parts has to go through in order to get stuck on a PC Board, we have to take a solder bath to see what kind of heat it is involve. You think it's crazy? :lol: :D 8) :wink:

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