Integrated or separates?

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Camodei
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Integrated or separates?

Post by Camodei » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:58 am

Hello everyone,

I'm a longtime BC fan and lurker here but this is my first post. I have a DAR and SBT/SBM in two systems and love them both. I'm considering an upgrade, I'm looking at the FfTH 2 or maybe mate my SBT with a BC1022. What do you think the advantages/disadvantages of each would be? Thanks!

masluck
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Post by masluck » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:42 pm

Hi Camodei,

I have had all my original purchase BC "chassis" since 2001 - the only differences are that the guts are no longer stock on any piece. How about just getting your amps upgraded? I would think that you could KQ a DAR or expand its power supply to infinity :shock: If you like the sound of your gear, I can tell you it only gets better and has with each upgrade that I have had done - more cost effective and you can take it as far as your vision and finances allow...food for thought...

Mark

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BlueKnight
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Post by BlueKnight » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:54 pm

What Mark said. Don't throw away the baby with the bath water. A simple upgrade is the way to go. And cost effective.


PS: Image
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Camodei
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Post by Camodei » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:19 pm

Point taken guys, but my DAR is fully loaded (KQ included), it would go into another system, so it would still be in use.

And thanks for the welcome!

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Double D
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Post by Double D » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:33 pm

Well.... this is a bit of a tough one.. I think the bigger questions need to be answered first:

1) what is the partnering gear/speakers ?

2) what aspect of the performance are you looking to improve ?

3) what listening "biases" do you gravitate towards ?

4) welcome aboard ! 8)

Camodei
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Post by Camodei » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:22 am

I have Trenner and Friedl speakers, they need a little power behind them to get the best out of them. That said, even the SBT/SBM's seem to drive them in my small listening room.

I once bought the DAR to replace the SBT/SBM, at first I loved it. That extra weight and lushness was just what I wanted at the time. I've come to appreciate the speed and lightness of the SBT/SBM in comparison to the DAR. I suppose I'd like a supreme version of the SB's. More speed, more clarity, more realism, and maybe a bit more holographic and a bit less opaque.

Listening biases in what sense?

Thanks!
Last edited by Camodei on Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Double D
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Post by Double D » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:21 pm

By "listening biases" I mean do you listen for tone and timbre ? are you driven by "pace, rhythm and timing (PRAT) " ? Do you prefer to listen at stadium volume levels "rev it to ELEVEN BAAAABY !" ? do you value imaging and soundstage over other considerations ? That sort of thing.

From what I'm hearing from you, I can definitely say the 1022 will give you more holography.. and bring things into focus at the same time. It's peppy without being overbearing (I don't thing G would let it in the wild it wasn't well mannered.. :lol: )
I can tell you that partnering a tube pre with the 1022 is REALLY sweet ! 8)

Camodei
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Post by Camodei » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:23 pm

I tend to listen at moderate levels. I crave a certain realism of instruments, without any extra fluff. This happens to be my only complaint of the DAR, it's a bit too lush. My SB's and the FfTH don't seem to share this quality. Most of all, my toes needs to be tapping! Which tube pre have you heard with the 1022? And do you prefer to the FfTH?

Thanks!

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Double D
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Post by Double D » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:07 pm

Well.. I've heard my BC303-DWBB with the 1022 and although many would raise eyebrows at the differential on the price variance between the two (and also the validity of putting a $20k+ pre amp with a $5k amp :?: ) The merits with a speaker like the Harbeth SHL5 working in a modest sized room at moderate volumes is actually rather compelling, that and the fact that the 1022 seems to punch quite a bit above it's weight class.

The fact is .. that I suspect any of the BC3 pre-amp variants would pair up nicely with the 1022. My 303 exploits the 1022's balanced inputs rather beautifully. 8) All of Gilberts new series amps (NSP, NSL, 1022 .. etc) benefit from the ultra low noise floor inherent in the design, and the balanced inputs only add sauce for the goose. :lol:

While I haven't spent any time with the FtTH in my own rig .. from what I've heard from the FtTH2 in less controlled circumstances, it was definitely pushing a lot of my buttons in that if I were looking for an integrated for my main rig.. It would be top of the list.

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ERM
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Post by ERM » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:15 pm

Camodei wrote:I tend to listen at moderate levels. I crave a certain realism of instruments, without any extra fluff. This happens to be my only complaint of the DAR, it's a bit too lush. My SB's and the FfTH don't seem to share this quality. Most of all, my toes needs to be tapping! Which tube pre have you heard with the 1022? And do you prefer to the FfTH?

Thanks!
I also have a DAR and found that it does change depending on the tube. Currently using a NOS Sylvania and don't find it over lush at all. Of course the rest of the equipment is totally different. Speakers are Oscar Kitharas which are quite efficient. I'm actually going away from separates and scaling back around the DAR. Having an extra input and processor loop added next month. Maybe it's just an age thing (turning 64 next month) but I find the DAR to be very musical, with lots of PRAT and delivers the true harmonics of the various instruments. Camadei, if you don't mind can you please PM me with the changes made to your DAR, thoughts, and approximate costs, because that's the route I'm headed.

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